John Kowanetz - founder of Pathways Coaching & Consulting & Author of Life Without Crutches

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.279
The topics and opinions express in the
following show are solely those of the hosts

2
00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.000
and their guests, and not those
of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are

3
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:10.039
affiliates. We make no recommendations or
endorsements radio show, programs, services,

4
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:14.119
or products mentioned on air or on
our web. No liability explicitor implied shall

5
00:00:14.119 --> 00:00:17.800
be extended to W four CY Radio
or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions

6
00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:21.079
or comments should be directed to those
show hosts. Thank you for choosing W

7
00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:33.880
FOURCY Radio. Churchill said, those
who failed to learn from history are condemned

8
00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.799
to repeat it. Kevin helen n
believes that certainly applies to business. Welcome

9
00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:44.759
to Winning Business Radio here at W
four CY Radio. That's W four cy

10
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:54.039
dot com and now your host,
Kevin Helena. Thanks for joining in again

11
00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:59.079
today. I'm Kevin Hallanan and welcome
back to Winning Business TV and Radio on

12
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:03.560
W four C dot com, streaming
live on talkfour tv dot com in addition

13
00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.840
to Facebook at Winning Business Radio as
well as of course, we're available in

14
00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:14.120
podcasts after the live show on tons
of outlets including YouTube, iHeartRadio, Spotify,

15
00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:18.719
Apple, pretty much wherever you listen
to your favorite podcasts. The mission

16
00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.920
of this show winning business radio and
TV, as regular listeners and viewers know,

17
00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:26.200
is to offer insights and advice to
help people avoid the mistakes of others,

18
00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.719
right to learn best practices, the
how tos, the what toos,

19
00:01:30.799 --> 00:01:34.840
the what not tos, to be
challenged, and certainly to be inspired by

20
00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:38.079
the successes of others. But you
know, as I say every week,

21
00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:42.200
virtually every successful person I've ever had
a chance to talk to has had some

22
00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.840
form of failure in their lives and
careers. So while we all have to

23
00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:48.760
get our knees skinned once in a
while, I'm driven to keep those scrapes

24
00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:52.599
from needing major surgery. Let's endeavor
to learn from history, our own,

25
00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.879
usually, so we don't have to
repeat it today. My guest is John

26
00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:00.640
Covenant's founder and principle of Pathways Coaching
and Consulting, public speaker excuse me,

27
00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:06.159
an author of Life Without Crutches.
Here's his bio. John Covenants is the

28
00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:10.240
lead pathfinder for Pathways Coaching and Consulting. He works with business owners and individuals

29
00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:15.280
who want to grow past where they
are. He helps them recapture the enjoyment

30
00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:20.240
and confidence that they'll succeed after many
have approached, if not experienced burnout.

31
00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:24.000
John is a born entrepreneur, having
tested out many of his ideas and inventions

32
00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:29.240
certain in the first two decades of
his life. His first official begin business,

33
00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:32.000
excuse me, began in the two
car garage of his Mesa, Arizona

34
00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:37.240
home, when he launched Handcrafted car
Audio in July of two thousand and seven.

35
00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:39.400
As John tells it, back then, he had absolutely no idea what

36
00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:43.319
it would take to grow a business
or where that path might lead him.

37
00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.840
All he knew was that he loved
the work and had become his passion and

38
00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.719
livelihood over the past seven years.
That he wanted to do it on his

39
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.800
own for his community in a way
that nobody else was And it was that

40
00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.800
drive to be unique, to be
the best, and to serve others that

41
00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.800
fueled the slow and steady growth that
created a solid foundation upon which he built

42
00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:06.280
a multiple award winning business over that
next fifteen years before selling it profitably in

43
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:10.840
August of twenty twenty two. Handcrafted
was profitable in fourteen of those fifteen years,

44
00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:15.080
nine of which saw more than a
ten percent year over year net profit

45
00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:17.319
increase, provided for the families of
some of the best in the industry,

46
00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:22.840
tarret of near five star rating on
every platform, and was proudly described by

47
00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:25.680
money clients as not the cheapest,
but the best in the valley. However,

48
00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:29.800
it was the lessons that he learned
during that time that were more important.

49
00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:34.280
Setting a business up for success from
the start with proper policies and procedures,

50
00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.840
empowering employees to operate with autonomy,
achieving company goals their own way,

51
00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:44.800
but within a defined framework. Lessons
about the efficacy of properly qualifying new customers,

52
00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:49.400
ensuring that their problems were solved satisfactorily
and for a price that's fair to

53
00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:53.000
both parties. At last, but
far from least, the critical lessons of

54
00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:57.759
taking the time to organize the books, optimize net profit, and leverage both

55
00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:01.159
tangible and intangible assets to maximize the
overall value of the business. But the

56
00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:06.039
story goes on. John had business
success, but had become emotionally disconnected,

57
00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:11.719
overweight and hungover, and found himself
reading divorce papers that he had just been

58
00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:14.759
served. Like so many others that
had come before him, he had poured

59
00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.040
so much of himself into his building, into building his professional life, that

60
00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:23.000
there was little energy left to sustain
a healthy personal life, and so it's

61
00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:26.920
slowly decayed in the years that have
passed since then, He's lost and kept

62
00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.759
off the extra sixty pounds that his
bad habits had kept on for so long.

63
00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:33.560
He worked with family therapists and AA
to figure out why he had been

64
00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:39.319
turning to alcohol to solve life problems
in the first place. He's rebuilt relationships

65
00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:43.120
with his daughter, family and friends
that had withered through disconnection. John's a

66
00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.800
father of one, a lover of
music, a climber of mountains, a

67
00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.680
speaker and writer. Realizing his childhood
dreams. John now writes and speaks about

68
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:56.600
his experiences from the stage at events
across North America, combining decades of professional

69
00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.480
retail sales and customer service experience with
self test did methods for personal improvement,

70
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:04.120
and an undying dream to be a
rock star. I love that John's engagements

71
00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:09.959
are educational, enlightening, entertaining,
and empowering, leaving attendees wanting and able

72
00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:13.360
to change their professional and personal lives. I met John while I was speaking

73
00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:15.959
at an industry event. He was
as well, and in fact, some

74
00:05:15.040 --> 00:05:17.279
of you may recall that I had
John on this program as a guest.

75
00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:20.680
Back in the fall of twenty nineteen, we had a really good conversation which

76
00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.800
some of you may want to go
back and listen to. Since the writing

77
00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:29.600
of his book Life Without Crutches,
I wanted to give him the opportunity to

78
00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:32.480
tell us about the life, his
life and journey and the lessons that caused

79
00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:36.800
him to share his compelling and deeply
personal story. John, Welcome back to

80
00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:42.279
Winning Business Radio now Winning Business TV
as well. Thank you man. That

81
00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:46.720
was awesome. I was just sitting
there like listening to you recite that whole

82
00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:55.000
thing, and it was very powerful
and invigorating and reaffirming, you know,

83
00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:57.120
for a lot of things I've been
thinking about lately, on all the things

84
00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.319
I've been doing so well, I'm
glad. I'm glad I tweaked it slightly,

85
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.920
but everything's true. I noticed.
But Hey, that's that's all good.

86
00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:05.839
I think that you know me well
enough to be able to do something

87
00:06:05.879 --> 00:06:10.439
like that, and it's all good. All right. So let's get some

88
00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:14.680
background. Tell everybody where you grew
up. Where I grew up, Gilbert,

89
00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:17.519
Arizona, Gilbert, Averzona and it's
just a suburb of Phoenix, Okay,

90
00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:23.399
And how did you get into the
twelve old industry or car audio is

91
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:26.839
we like to call it for listeners
to understand and viewers to understand. How

92
00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.680
did you get into that business and
how to become a passion? I mean,

93
00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.720
I got into the business because I
got my first car when I was

94
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:39.639
about fifteen years old. I bought
it a little bit prior to you know,

95
00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:42.800
being able to legally drive, so
that I could make it mine,

96
00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:45.560
fix it up a little bit,
and one of the first things I did

97
00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:47.399
to it was have a sound system
put into it. Of course, the

98
00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:51.279
car couldn't even reliably shift out of
second year all the time. But I

99
00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:57.000
had sub offers, you know,
because music is life, and I always

100
00:06:57.079 --> 00:07:00.720
loved music one hundred percent. The
two passions of mine have always been music

101
00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:04.920
and tinkering with things. I was
that kid that would like take things apart

102
00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:09.560
just to see how they work,
you know. So I got music,

103
00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:11.879
I got sub offers in the car, and then when I had to get

104
00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:15.720
rid of that car because of the
eventually didn't go into second year at all,

105
00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:21.399
I removed that stuff from the vehicle
myself installed in my next vehicle and

106
00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:25.439
realized I can do this, and
then I started doing it. For friends

107
00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.319
and family, and next thing,
you know, I got a job at

108
00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.720
like a local shop in town when
I was a teenager and just kind of

109
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:39.680
took off from there. I got
more like my position grew from there,

110
00:07:39.800 --> 00:07:45.319
from an entry level installer to a
full time installer to a supervisor manager.

111
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:50.519
And I worked as a working at
dealerships, you know, installing products on

112
00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:54.759
cars on dealership lots. I worked
at custom shops, I worked at big

113
00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:59.439
box stores. I did everything,
really, every role that you could really

114
00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:05.199
imagine in the industry I did.
And then I would say that my passion

115
00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.240
for it was it was never about
cars. I'm not a car person.

116
00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.519
I don't really care about cars very
much. It was about music. It

117
00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.399
was about the fabrication. It was
about the difficulty of making it all come

118
00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:22.319
together and recreating good, high quality
music in a difficult environment like a car.

119
00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:30.519
But the real passion for it really
came when I started Handcrafted in two

120
00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.320
thousand and seven, because then it
was like, not only am I am

121
00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:39.720
I using all of my skills to
recreate music in a car and overcome the

122
00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:43.559
challenges that that entails. Now I'm
using all my skills to build a business

123
00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:50.039
that does that and all the challenges
that that entails, and that's really where

124
00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.440
the passion came into play for sure, And I've seen a couple of them.

125
00:08:54.720 --> 00:09:01.279
Your company, Handcrafted became an award
winning retail shop us about you know

126
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:05.919
how it felt to achieve that level
of success and then you ended up selling

127
00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:09.240
that business and tell us the why
behind that? Well, how long you

128
00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:15.399
got we have an hour? I
know, I know what. There's a

129
00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.000
lot to talk about. It's a
lot to unpack that I want to get

130
00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:20.080
through as most as much of it
as we can. But I'll be brief.

131
00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.759
I'll be brief. So the awards, what it felt like to win

132
00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:30.519
the awards pretty incredible. We won
several over the course of the fifteen years

133
00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:33.399
that we were in business. The
first one was very meaningful for me.

134
00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.639
That was an award called Installer of
the Year. It was very meaningful for

135
00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:43.919
me because I actually I've won that
and was awarded that at a show that

136
00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:46.799
I wasn't able to be present for
because my daughter had just recently been born

137
00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.879
and she had to have open heart
surgery when she was seven days old.

138
00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:58.559
So actually the night of the awards
ceremony was the night before her surgery,

139
00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:01.440
so I've there was no way I
was going to go to the awards ceremony.

140
00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:07.360
So one of my friends named Todd, recently passed away, accepted the

141
00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.679
award on my behalf. So it
was really really touching and one of those

142
00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:16.080
things that came at a moment when
like I really needed a boost, you

143
00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:20.799
know. So that was really good. We won Retailer of the Year,

144
00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:22.559
which was really important to me.
That one was three years later in twenty

145
00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.360
thirteen. That was really important to
me because that was like a team effort

146
00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:28.279
that was like all of us,
what we built, you know, what

147
00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:35.600
we did. We won an award
for most Improved Location, which is great

148
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.919
because we did a lot of work
to make that happen. So the awards,

149
00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.759
there were some other ones there.
The awards were a really nice,

150
00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:48.360
well timed every single time. It
was like a well timed award to show,

151
00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.759
hey, you're doing something good,
you know, and and we as

152
00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.240
an industry recognize that you're doing something
good and we want to show you you

153
00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:01.879
know that that's the case. So
it was powerful. I still have them.

154
00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.519
I have the awards up in my
office and you know, I displayed

155
00:11:05.559 --> 00:11:09.960
them proudly. So what was behind
the successful I might add sale of your

156
00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.519
company. So that was that was
something that was a couple of years in

157
00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:18.200
the in the making, and you
touched on in the intro there. You

158
00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.440
touched on my personal development and all
the things that I went through to that

159
00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:28.679
end. And when I started doing
those things, my appreciation and my enjoyment

160
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.080
of my life just amplified, and
I started finding all kinds of other things

161
00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:37.039
that I was that I was passionate
about as well, and I found myself

162
00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.039
being drawn in different directions than I
had been, you know, for the

163
00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:46.320
previous I don't know, eight nine, ten, eleven, twelve years of

164
00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:50.320
owning that business, and it came
to a point where I had had the

165
00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:52.759
thought for a good couple of years
that like, I think it's time to

166
00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.519
get out of this. I think
it's time to do something else. I

167
00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:58.279
want to try something new. I
had been doing car audio for like half

168
00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:03.559
my life by the time I sold
that business. So when I when I

169
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.960
eventually did, it was a mixture
of wanting to move on to something else,

170
00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.879
the timing being right, finding a
buyer, and it just was one

171
00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:20.840
of those things where it was like
I remember, I remember thinking about it

172
00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:22.320
and and trying to decide is this
what I want to do? And I

173
00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.360
remember thinking, there's there's a fork
in the road, you know, There's

174
00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:31.360
there's two paths that I can take
from here. One is either continue on

175
00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.840
with this business the way that I
have been. The other one is to

176
00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.279
go on into something that I don't
even know what it is yet. I

177
00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:39.519
don't know, I don't know where
that leads. But one thing I know

178
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.960
for sure is that continuing on with
this business that I'm in now is not

179
00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:48.360
going to get me to where I
want to be. Right So once I

180
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:52.360
came to that conclusion, it was
a pretty easy decision to go forward.

181
00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:54.639
And so the way I put it
is, it seems something like you had

182
00:12:54.679 --> 00:13:01.840
an old new passion that's helping others
through your life lessons, an old new

183
00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.519
passion, like you found that passion, But it's not something that was a

184
00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:09.080
new idea to you. Oh no, no, definitely not because I had

185
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.159
been doing I see what you mean
now. I had been doing public speaking

186
00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:18.679
and classes and stuff like that at
industry events for eight nine years prior to

187
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:24.120
COVID, you know, so I've
had a lot of experience and time in

188
00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.600
helping other people. Yes, all
right, we're going to talk about some

189
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:31.320
of the key moments in your life
that you reference in the book. And

190
00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.840
this is where I want to dig
in. But we're at believe it or

191
00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.879
not, We right our first break. We're going to be back in just

192
00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:46.480
about a minute with John Covenants.
Stay tuned. You're listening to Winning Business

193
00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:52.320
Radio with Kevin Helene on W four
CY Radio. That's W four cy dot

194
00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:56.320
com. Don't go away. More
helpful information is coming right up right here

195
00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:03.559
on Winning Business Radio. Have you
ever dreamt of being on the radio,

196
00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:07.320
Well, now it's your chance be
a radio show guest on the number one

197
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:11.120
ranked internet radio station and promote you
and your business for free. Yes you

198
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:16.159
heard it, Free business advertising right
here on W four cy dot com.

199
00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:22.039
Call five six one five zero six
four zero three to one now to get

200
00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.679
booked on one of our shows.
That's five six one five zero six four

201
00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:35.159
zero three to one. Get your
free advertising now. And now back to

202
00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:39.799
Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helena,
presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one

203
00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:45.320
goal in mind to help you succeed
in business. Here once again it is

204
00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:56.600
Kevin Helena. We're back with John
covenants. The book is Life Without Crutches.

205
00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:01.759
First, John, where's this book
available? So it's available on Amazon.

206
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:03.960
It's also available on the website,
which is Life Without Crutches dot com.

207
00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:09.679
Life Without Crutches dot com excellent.
So I don't know how many of

208
00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.240
these we even have time for.
There are so many seminal moments that you

209
00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.279
reference. Your parents' divorce, being
a twelve year old seeking approval from,

210
00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.000
as you call it, the bad
kids, the family reunion on Long Island,

211
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.759
upping the ante when you got home, the house parties. I mean,

212
00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:28.200
there's just so much stuff that to
you. You felt that strongly enough

213
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.480
to write about it, and it's
pretty compelling. Take us through some of

214
00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:37.799
that in terms of how by the
way, yeah, by the way,

215
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:43.240
I don't want to dramatize the negative
stuff I want to talk about, right,

216
00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:48.440
it all fits. It's your story. So take us through some of

217
00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.720
those most important moments that people will
read when they get the book, and

218
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.559
some of the most important moments in
terms of how they contributed to where that

219
00:15:56.600 --> 00:16:00.799
path led to. Right, I
mean, I think the uh, the

220
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:07.759
the most important aspect of all of
it is was the underlying current of what

221
00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:18.720
each one of those the itch that
each one of those events scratched, you

222
00:16:18.759 --> 00:16:26.200
know, which was that that that
underlying need for to be noticed, acceptance,

223
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.399
approval, all that type of stuff. And that really was one of

224
00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:32.559
the one of the beautiful things about
about going through all of that and doing

225
00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:34.759
the therapy and you know, going
through AA and all that type of stuff

226
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:38.960
is the way that it really requires
you to really dig in deep to who

227
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:41.080
you are and what happened and where
that came from. And one of the

228
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:45.600
things that I really realized after going
through all of that is just the effect

229
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.960
that you noted on there my parents'
divorce, and it's something so common,

230
00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:53.519
right, so many of us go
through that, and I think one of

231
00:16:53.519 --> 00:17:02.919
the one of the major UH delineate
factors in how in the effect that that

232
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:07.240
has one way or the other on
the kids of divorce is how well it

233
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.160
is explained to them. And so
for me, where being so young,

234
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.960
I was only seven years old and
it happened, there was there was there

235
00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:19.400
wasn't the ability within my family to
have that kind of conversation. And you

236
00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.880
talked about some of the confusion that
you experienced. Yeah, yeah, so

237
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.440
you know, you don't know all
you know, is your family is now

238
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:29.319
separated, and you know, you
don't know why. No one ever,

239
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.400
no one ever had the ability to
explain, here's what happened, and here's

240
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.240
why it happened, and so that
I could make sense of it, you

241
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.720
know, So then you kind of
draw your own conclusions, you know.

242
00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.200
And what anybody will tell you is
that a child of divorce, especially a

243
00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:44.519
very young child of divorce, is
always going to assume it's because of them,

244
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.000
you know. And uh, and
as I grew, you know,

245
00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.799
as I as I got older,
and I recognize I remember events in my

246
00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:56.039
life that made me feel at that
time. I've got a different perspective on

247
00:17:56.079 --> 00:18:00.400
it now, but at that time
made me feel that I'm not good enough

248
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.839
unless I'm something more than what I
am. So there's always this desire to

249
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.160
be something more than what I am, to get this approval that I had

250
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.640
been lacking. So whether that was
like I said in the book, like

251
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:17.400
starting smoking with the bad kids,
you know, or yeah, mowing the

252
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:18.960
parties at my house, you know, Like my mom was a single mom.

253
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:23.359
She was working herself day and night
to keep us in that house.

254
00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:27.160
And there I was throwing these like
wild parties, because to me, what

255
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:30.640
that was was all the other kids
thought that I was cool because I was

256
00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.200
able to give them this place where
they could hang out and have good time

257
00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:40.039
and whatever. So it just fed
that that need and it scratched that itch

258
00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:44.680
of like, finally you're getting that, getting the attention and approval that you

259
00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:49.119
were looking for before. All the
while you're having other success, right,

260
00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.599
but you just you weren't healthy,
you weren't satisfied, you weren't whole on

261
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:59.160
the inside. Uh, how did
your could you talk about it? How

262
00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:04.440
did your you got arrested for duy? Yes? Right, talk about the

263
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:10.440
impact that that had with regard to
your parents. M that was so that

264
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:14.200
that happened when I was twenty three. By the way, at twenty three,

265
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.599
you were making really good money.
You had a good job, you

266
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:19.640
had you were a homeowner. Yes
I was. Yeah, So I had

267
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:25.200
moved out of my parents' house pretty
pretty shortly after after becoming an adult.

268
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:30.920
I'm fortunate in that I was always
able to command a high wage, you

269
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:33.680
know, for my skills, So
I was I was grateful in being able

270
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.599
to do that and being able to
move out and start my life and buy

271
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:38.880
a house and all that type of
stuff, and I was I was led

272
00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:44.079
by by smart people to make those
kinds of decisions, So very grateful for

273
00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:45.200
that. But yeah, yeah,
I had a lot of really good things

274
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.319
going on, and I was building
a lot of stuff, and things seemed

275
00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:55.359
to be going very very well.
But there was still that having having spent

276
00:19:56.079 --> 00:20:00.640
all of my teenage years, you
know, the event that you referenced in

277
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:04.279
Long Island at my grandparents house that
happened when I was thirteen, Right,

278
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:07.480
So my first drink ever was when
I was thirteen, and from then on

279
00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.200
it just kind of became a regular
thing to where it was like, this

280
00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.599
is just how you live, This
is just how you navigate life. It

281
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.880
wasn't a question of, oh,
I'm having a bad day, or oh

282
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.480
something happened, I need a conscious
decision to you know what, I'm just

283
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.480
going to have a drink. It
was just what I just did. It

284
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:29.839
became normal. So by that time, even though I was having all these

285
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.960
things, all these successful, you
know, ventures in life and starting a

286
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.920
family and all that kind of stuff, there was still that that habit.

287
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.440
It just became a part of the
way that I lived life. So when

288
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:45.519
it eventually caught up to me and
I got arrested for DUI and I had

289
00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.559
to deal with all of that,
and I had to go and do the

290
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.720
tense city thing in Phoenix where you
know they make you sleep outside and in

291
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.559
tents in the middle of the summer, and own up to that with my

292
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.559
with my family and my parents.
It was it was a major It was

293
00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.680
a major gut check and a major
a major blow to the ego, uh

294
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:10.359
for sure, But I don't know
that it it clearly it didn't. It

295
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:17.880
wasn't enough to be right the end
of that, I kept going and there

296
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:23.039
was another one another d u I. Oh so well that that one actually

297
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.480
was the second one. That's the
second one, Oka, Yeah, when

298
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:27.119
I was twenty three. That was
the second one. The first one was

299
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:32.720
I as a teenager. That one
was Wow, we're really going back here.

300
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:34.759
Yeah, So that one was when
I was seventeen. That one was

301
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.440
actually not for alcohol. That was
for marijuana. Oh okay, yeah,

302
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:42.039
but that one, so that that
one did have that one did have a

303
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:48.359
very big impact between me and my
parents because that was when I was a

304
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:51.240
teenager. That was when I was
still living at home, and that was

305
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:56.079
one of those moments where from that
point on that did draw a line in

306
00:21:56.119 --> 00:21:59.519
the sand, and I had never
done drugs ever again from there because it

307
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:03.720
was like this, this moment where
I realized, this is where this type

308
00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.200
of behavior leads you, and when
you do these things that are dangerous and

309
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.839
careless about not only yourself and your
other people, this is where you end

310
00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.599
up, but also this is the
effect that has on other people. To

311
00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.200
see the way that it affected my
parents and my siblings and everything like that.

312
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.400
But what I always thought was very
interesting, and I wrote about in

313
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:25.359
the book as well, is that
it was easy to come to that conclusion

314
00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:32.359
about something so back then illegal as
drugs, but alcohol is a different thing

315
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:40.720
because of the way alcohol is so
readily accessible and celebrated and legal. It's

316
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:44.240
just normal. Like it's like if
you go out and you don't drink,

317
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:48.200
it's almost weird in some ways,
you know, And it's just so easily

318
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.920
accessible. So it was interesting to
me when I stopped, and I once

319
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.599
I did quit, you know,
and I stopped, and I looked back

320
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:56.640
on those times in my life.
As I was writing the book, I

321
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:02.799
remember coming to the realization like,
this is so strange that at seventeen when

322
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:07.039
I got caught driving while stoned and
I went through all that, I was

323
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:08.400
like, well, I'm done with
that, never doing that again. But

324
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:12.160
alcohol, Nope, that just wasn't
the same thing. And it was just

325
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:19.480
a very interesting, just a position. So you mentioned that some of these

326
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:25.480
events they certainly shaped who you are, but to your point just now,

327
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:30.200
they weren't. Some of these what
others might consider rock bottom events or certainly

328
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:36.119
negative events, didn't change the negative
behavior that you would continued in. Right

329
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:44.279
as you described it. You purchased
now your another home, new girlfriend became

330
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.799
your wife, baby girl, and
as you mentioned, open heart surgery.

331
00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:53.400
No, it's fault, just a
abnormality, right, And she's flourishing today.

332
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:56.119
I know that because I've talked to
you. But you found that you

333
00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:00.400
were numbing your emotions in your pain. You got to the point where your

334
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:06.400
marriage was failing, uh, and
divorce and a realization that things needed to

335
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:11.200
change. M hm. Take us
to that moment. Yeah, So it's

336
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.119
it's like a I've come to realize. And one of the things that I

337
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.400
talk a lot about in my I
do a class at at industry events called

338
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.440
cast Off the Crutches and it's a
play on the words of the book obviously,

339
00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.960
and the intention there is to share
my story and then to help people

340
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:29.759
to identify what their own struggles are
and their own bad habits and behaviors that

341
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:33.359
they want to overcome, and then
share with them the steps that I took

342
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.799
to do it to try to,
you know, help them overcome their own

343
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:41.519
bad habits and behaviors. Right.
So, what I've learned in having done

344
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:48.960
that is that more times than not, you have to we we learned the

345
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:53.440
biggest lessons from our biggest losses and
and and the most pain, you know.

346
00:24:53.599 --> 00:25:00.240
So what happened was that as each
one of those events took place,

347
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:03.920
it was easy for me to say, Okay, well, that was an

348
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.079
isolated event that happened one time.
I'm not going to have to pay that

349
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:08.839
price again, you know, the
DUI paid, the fines I did,

350
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:11.039
the jail time, that was done. I wasn't going to have to do

351
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:14.960
that again. When my daughter went
through a heart surgery, thing that was

352
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:17.440
done one time, and I didn't
have to do that again. All these

353
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.160
other things, it was so easy
to come up with excuses for why that

354
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:26.640
wasn't it wasn't enough of an impetus
to change. But when somebody looks at

355
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:32.000
you and says you are not good
enough anymore, and I don't want you

356
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:36.880
in my life anymore, and I
am going to legally separate myself from you.

357
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.839
And in doing so, you're losing
the house you know that you lived

358
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.039
in. You're losing half the time
that you get to spend with your daughter,

359
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:51.039
You're losing all these different things.
For me, that was the point

360
00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:55.480
where I really there. There is
no more running from it. There's no

361
00:25:55.559 --> 00:26:00.359
more ways to sugarcoat it or not
take account of it for it. This

362
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:06.920
is full on. This is because
of what you do and the way that

363
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.839
you are that all these things are
happening to you. And so that,

364
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.759
in addition to the fact that I
had now become a single father, which

365
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.160
I had never planned to do,
and I was now responsible for this little

366
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.920
girl's quality of life for half of
her life the time that she was with

367
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:25.960
me, it was just one of
those things where it was like, no

368
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:29.599
more, it's it's time to change. You cannot do this anymore. I

369
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.559
reached my rock bottom, like I
think most people need to do. Now

370
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.319
you're what's the what's the word?
I didn't even want to use. I'm

371
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.039
not sure if even substances, because
it's not always a substance your crutch,

372
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.960
Yeah, was alcohol. There are
lots of other kinds of crutches. Indeed,

373
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:49.920
talk about some of those, oh
man, and and and that's you

374
00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:53.839
know what's so incredible, you know, you know when you look back on

375
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:56.880
things and you see the steps that
it took to get to where you're at

376
00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:00.440
now, and when you were on
that step, you had no idea where

377
00:27:00.440 --> 00:27:02.720
it was going to leave. But
then when you look back on it in

378
00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:06.559
retrospect, it makes so much sense. And when I wrote that book,

379
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.880
I know I talked about these other
these other crutches and the way that they

380
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.400
play, but I was so it
was I was so aware of what my

381
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:21.960
own one was. That like that
was the that was really the the crux

382
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.759
of it, you know, that
was like the that was that was the

383
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.240
big one right in my mind.
And in the years that have passed since

384
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.720
then, and in the workshops that
I've done and people that I've talked to,

385
00:27:29.799 --> 00:27:36.359
and I've watched people struggle with other
things, legitimately struggle with these things,

386
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:42.000
it's it's opened my mind so much
to to the many ways that people

387
00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:49.799
can become afflicted and and uh cause
them to be completely distracted from their life.

388
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:56.480
And it's things as as dangerous as
alcohol and drugs and gambling, you

389
00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:57.720
know, things like that. But
then it can also be things as simple

390
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:02.480
as social media and too much TV. And it all sounds so trite,

391
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:04.000
you know, like we all we
all talk about we're on our phones too

392
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:07.680
much and d da da da da
da. But what we don't talk about

393
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:12.240
enough is what is happening underneath it. All we talk about is put your

394
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:15.680
phone down, be present in the
moment. And it's like, yeah,

395
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:18.720
that's great advice, and it's something
that you really should do. But what

396
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:23.119
we don't address enough is what it
is that's underlying the surface that makes you

397
00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:29.319
feel like you have to do that
in the first place. That's what really

398
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.720
needs to be addressed. And so
for me, one of the most powerful

399
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:37.200
things about this whole experience for me
was that moment when for me, quitting

400
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:44.119
drinking was just getting rid of the
substance. It was just it was stopping

401
00:28:44.319 --> 00:28:48.200
doing the thing that numbed away the
emotions, yeah, the good and the

402
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:52.880
bad, but it wasn't doing anything
to actually solve the problem. It was

403
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:57.960
just taking away the substance. So
what can happen A lot of times you

404
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:00.599
may see this. If you see
somebody quit one thing, they take on

405
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:07.119
something else is move on to a
new addiction. But when I, and

406
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:10.880
when I've seen other people get to
the bottom of what was actually driving that

407
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:15.000
behavior, no matter what the addiction
is, that's where a real change happens.

408
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:18.319
All right, that's exactly where I
want to go. We're going to

409
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.640
take our second break right now.
We'll be back in just about a minute

410
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:30.960
with John Covens. You're listening to
Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helenet on W

411
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.559
four CY Radio. That's W four
cy dot com. Don't go away.

412
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:41.480
More helpful information is coming right up
right here on Winning Business Radio. The

413
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.200
yp dot com website is your local
search engine. If you're looking for a

414
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.720
good restaurant, it can help you
find the right one nearby with ratings and

415
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:52.079
reviews. Or if your car breaks
down, you can use the yp app

416
00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:56.680
to find the closest repair shop.
Or maybe you're just looking for something to

417
00:29:56.680 --> 00:29:59.839
do on a Friday night. Well, it has great local coupons for all

418
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.160
sorts of things in your area.
No matter what, when or where.

419
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:06.720
If you're looking for something, YP
Local Search can help you find it.

420
00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:10.400
So go to yp dot com or
download the app to search local, find

421
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:18.839
local, and save local. And
now back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin

422
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:23.440
Helene, presenting exciting topics and expert
guests with one goal in mind to help

423
00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:36.359
you succeed in business. Here once
again is Kevin Helene. Okay, we're

424
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:40.319
back with John Covenant's, author of
Life Without Crutches. Also, I love

425
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:45.000
this, by the way, lead
pathfinder for Pathways coaching and consulting, touch

426
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.000
on, touch on your consulting company. You're coaching in consulting company? Oh

427
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:55.559
man, that is again I was
talking about It wasn't really a play on

428
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:57.119
words. It's just this is just
a part of me right when I was

429
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:03.599
talking about the path that leads you
are now, it's just so like coming

430
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:10.200
to that was just a natural evolution
of me. I think because I had

431
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:11.599
been doing the public speaking like I
was talking about before, and doing the

432
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:18.480
classes at industry events for a long
time, you know, before selling my

433
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.519
business, before selling my first business, and so when I was thinking about

434
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:26.039
what I wanted to do next,
I was I knew that what I wanted

435
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.240
to do was something that I could
do anywhere right, and I wanted to

436
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:34.880
be able to do something that had
more of a direct impact on other people

437
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:40.000
in the quality of their lives,
because I didn't feel like, you know,

438
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.880
I loved installing audio systems and everything
that we did at Handcrafted, but

439
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:48.960
I just want to do something that
I felt left a better legacy, I

440
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:55.319
guess maybe a way of saying.
So when I when I sold Handcrafted and

441
00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:57.759
I started thinking about what else it
was that I wanted to do, I

442
00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:01.960
was actually I took a a break. I went a little sabbatical after that

443
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:06.839
happened, and I was hiking up
in Canada and I had this thought,

444
00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:13.960
this vision, this I was led
to see what it was that I was

445
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:19.839
supposed to be doing, and for
me, it was always trying to help

446
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.799
other people, you know, in
those classes and in the public speaking.

447
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:24.319
I love getting up there. I
loved talking to people. I love sharing

448
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:28.799
my experiences. I loved what it
said in the in the beginning of this

449
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:34.079
show when you were talking about how
the voiceover was saying helping people to learn

450
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:39.799
from other people's experiences. That's been
like my whole motivation and everything I've done

451
00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:43.359
for a long time. So when
I was on that hike and I was

452
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:45.880
thinking about what it is that I
want to do next with my life.

453
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:50.720
This is like chapter two. I
got really clear on this idea that I

454
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:55.039
had that I had called hiking therapy. Like years ago, I had this

455
00:32:55.119 --> 00:33:00.640
idea of hiking therapy because I just
a avid hiker. When you go out

456
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:02.960
into nature. Every time I go
out there, I get clear on things,

457
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:06.119
I figure stuff out. When I
go with other people, we have

458
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:09.960
conversations, everybody comes back feeling better. Right, It's like therapy for free.

459
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:13.839
So I just have this idea.
In like twenty seventeen, I had

460
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:15.799
this idea that, like I should
do hiking therapy. And then when I

461
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:19.599
was on this hiking Canada, it
just got more clear and more clear and

462
00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.559
more clear, and I realized that
what I want to do because of who

463
00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.799
I am. I'm a born entrepreneur, you know, like it's just the

464
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:30.279
way my mind works. I'm constantly
thinking about things that I can do,

465
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:37.759
and so I, as we know, because what we've talked about, I

466
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:39.559
went through that whole process of being
an entrepreneur and building a business, and

467
00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:44.759
I lost myself to it. I
lost myself in multiple different ways like so

468
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:49.119
many people do. And I had
to fight back to get back my balance

469
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:52.079
and my health and my relationships.
And part of that was due to the

470
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:55.319
alcohol, like we talked about,
but it's due to that for so many

471
00:33:55.359 --> 00:34:00.079
other people as well. So I'm
so I'm so keyed into the to the

472
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:06.079
sacrifice that is required by a business
owner or a business leader to get to

473
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.199
where they want to go. And
I'm so keyed into what it feels like

474
00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:13.159
to get there and look around you
and be like, where is everybody?

475
00:34:13.599 --> 00:34:15.000
You know? Why do I feel
as badly as I do? So the

476
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:21.000
goal, the mission of what I'm
trying to do with Pathways is to help

477
00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:25.920
business leaders recover the life that they
sacrifice in pursuit of their career. And

478
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:31.719
for me, Pathways was just like
it was just a natural progression because it's

479
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:37.639
everything I love about what I've done. I take photos of Pathways. They

480
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:39.519
catch my eye when I'm out in
nature and I see something. It's just

481
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:44.199
it's just a thing for me.
So it just fit together very well.

482
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:46.840
And when I start thinking about it
along those lines on that hike in Canada,

483
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:52.079
I realized my intention in what I'm
doing here is to help you and

484
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:55.840
your business get to where you want
to go from where you are now and

485
00:34:55.880 --> 00:34:59.920
help you find a pathway to do
that. That's awesome, Thank you.

486
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:04.840
There is contact information. There is
contact information for John. We'll give you

487
00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:07.280
a chance to reach out to him. You begin to make changes, you

488
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:10.880
begin to identify the problem. And
what I think is really cool about this

489
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.039
book is that, as I said
earlier, it's not a glorification of the

490
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:21.559
of the junk. It's really a
guide to help others identify what their problems

491
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.920
are and make some changes. So
you start with I'm gonna point we've got

492
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:30.239
several things to go through, and
I'll just kind of drop a thought and

493
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:34.760
you go ahead. How you talk
about how to identify the problem? How

494
00:35:34.760 --> 00:35:38.679
do you help people identify the problem? First of all, I want to

495
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:43.920
say that you're absolutely right. The
whole purpose of that book is too is

496
00:35:43.960 --> 00:35:47.400
not to glorify the bad things it's
too. It's to I tell my story

497
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:52.639
to help other people try to identify
themselves within it so that they can they

498
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:55.719
can feel more comfortable owning whatever it
is that they're that they're going through.

499
00:35:57.960 --> 00:36:02.880
So to help them to identify what
the what the problem really is something that

500
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.559
we do in the workshops and something
I do one on one when I'm working

501
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:10.079
with people. But the truth of
the matter is that you know, you

502
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.000
know, they know, we all
know what is really holding us back.

503
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.840
We know what that thing is.
Either people have said something to us about

504
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:21.760
it, We've paid prices for it, you know, like me with the

505
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:23.960
DUI, Like I knew what the
problem was. You know, my ex

506
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.719
wife, she would complain about it, so I knew what the problem was.

507
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:30.480
We just had this clever way of
telling ourselves it's not really a problem.

508
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:37.960
So really, the process of helping
somebody to find out what their actual

509
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:43.639
problem is is when I'm doing a
presentation and I'm talking about it and I'm

510
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.039
sharing this story and there and they're
they're in it and they're thinking about their

511
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:50.599
own life, it's what are you
thinking about right now? What's in your

512
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:52.079
head right now? And that's the
thing, And then you dig a little

513
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.760
bit deeper in there, because there's
always something a little bit more underneath that.

514
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:59.519
But that first thought that you have, that that thing that you that

515
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:01.639
you instant want to run away from, that's the thing that you need to

516
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:07.639
focus on. And then you talk
about how to identify how life could be

517
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.239
without that particular crutch. That's kind
of cool. God, I love that

518
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:16.440
part. It's it's like, the
number of times that I encounter the efficacy

519
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:24.679
of this part of this thing is
unfathomable. Literally just encountered it very recently.

520
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:29.239
And so the whole idea behind that's
so there's two steps that are kind

521
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:34.000
of similar. The first one is
how much worse could your life get if

522
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.920
you don't get to handle on this? And the second part of that,

523
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.039
the very next follow up part of
it, is how much better could your

524
00:37:39.079 --> 00:37:44.039
life get if you do get a
handle on this. And it's the idea

525
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:49.199
there is to create polarity, you
know, to pull you toward this better

526
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:53.880
life and away from this worse life
by getting super super clear on the reality.

527
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:58.800
Because the truth is that, especially
with our lives the way that they

528
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:01.480
are these days, and how distract
and busy we are, it's so easy

529
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:05.960
to to just to just write it
off quickly, oh yeah, well,

530
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:07.039
you know that sucks. I shouldn't
be doing that anymore, and just leave

531
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.920
it there, and you're not going
to change anything with that kind of attitude.

532
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:14.840
But if you can get really,
really clear and honest with yourself about

533
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:20.400
just how just how much worse things
could get for you if you don't fix

534
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:23.079
this, but then also how much
better your life could get. It gives

535
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:28.039
you something to push against, and
it also gives you something to reach out

536
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:31.440
for, you know, and I
think that I know that when you are

537
00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:37.360
going through habit change and it's extremely
difficult to not go back to where you

538
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:45.559
were, those moments that you can
those those those glimpses of a life without

539
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:51.159
this thing are what you can hold
on to for hope when those moments are

540
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:53.239
hard. So I love that part. Well, what's cool to me too,

541
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:58.360
is you help people figure out why
they would want to change for themselves,

542
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:01.039
not because you or somebody else is
trying to tell them to do it

543
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.199
right. People change for their own
reasons, and that's that's why I think

544
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:12.559
that's really powerful. Then you help
people identify why that negative behavior has continued,

545
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:17.519
you know, sort of the root
cause M Yeah, that's that's critical.

546
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:20.760
That's like what I was saying before. You know, you can take

547
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:22.360
away the substance all you want,
and you're likely just going to find something

548
00:39:22.360 --> 00:39:29.199
else to get addicted to. It's
not until you uncover the reason why you

549
00:39:30.119 --> 00:39:34.960
turned to that substance in the first
place, that you're going to actually ever

550
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.519
really be free from it. Otherwise
you just kind of you're always living your

551
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:43.679
life running. And you know,
something that was really powerful for me along

552
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:45.639
this journey was, you know,
I went through AA and I had quit

553
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:49.679
drinking for like, I don't know, three months or so before I step

554
00:39:49.800 --> 00:39:53.159
putting an AA room. I didn't
need AA to stop drinking. Maybe it

555
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:57.639
was even it was six months.
Actually I didn't need AA to keep me

556
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:01.119
from drinking. And that's just me, not you know, yeah, not

557
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:06.360
just crediting the system at all.
I didn't need it. What I did

558
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:10.559
need it for was to figure out
why. And once I did figure it

559
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:15.320
out why, it was like the
battle was over. Up until that moment,

560
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:17.920
I felt like I was always I
always had to like stay away from

561
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:22.400
it, like no, like there
I can't even be around that, you

562
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.920
know, Like, But once I
understood why I went that way and why

563
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:30.280
I adopted this behavior in the first
place, and I healed those wounds.

564
00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.360
I say something in the in the
book that like once there's when there's no

565
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.559
more war to fight, there's no
need for weapons. Yeah, I saw

566
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:39.599
that. Yeah, you know,
you just put them down, put down

567
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:44.079
the weapons, invite the monsters out. You know, you're not trying to

568
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.159
beat them back into the shadows anymore. You know, you invite them out,

569
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:49.360
bring them out into the light,
see them for what they are,

570
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:52.320
make peace with it, except all
those parts about yourself, and once there's

571
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:58.159
no no monster to be afraid of
anymore than you know. That's powerful,

572
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:01.559
thank you. Right Next, how
to find the strength This is to me

573
00:41:02.119 --> 00:41:09.719
really important. How to find the
strength to make that decision that that part

574
00:41:09.880 --> 00:41:20.880
comes in the sequential order of things
purposefully, because it's like everything that we

575
00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:27.280
talk about up until that point is
meant to make you really feel what you're

576
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:31.119
what you're going through. And if
I could have it my way, like

577
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:35.039
if I was if I if I
could do it exactly the way I wanted

578
00:41:35.079 --> 00:41:38.239
to do it, I would create
like this like simulated life for you to

579
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:43.599
experience with like a three D headset
on or whatever virtual reality headset on,

580
00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:46.559
where you can literally feel and experience
what this is going to be. You

581
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:53.039
can experience your rock bottom in every
visceral way possible. So yeah, right,

582
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:57.079
wouldn't that be cool? Yeah?
So, if I could if I

583
00:41:57.079 --> 00:41:59.199
could have my way, I would
do that. Maybe one day I will,

584
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.039
I don't know, figure that out
somehow so that you can really feel

585
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.840
it. But for now, the
best thing that you can do, the

586
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.320
best thing I can think of to
do, is to really dig in deep

587
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.119
and get some substance to that.
So all those questions that come before that

588
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:15.360
are intended to really force you to
get that substance, so that by the

589
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:20.000
time you get to the point where
it's time to make a decision, there's

590
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:22.800
not really a decision to be made
anymore. It's going to be so obvious

591
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:30.840
that if you don't make this decision, you are literally choosing a life that

592
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:36.480
is not going to serve you in
any kind of good way. So that's

593
00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:38.760
really the biggest part of it.
And then if you can't, if even

594
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:44.960
that's not enough, honestly, and
I'm just it's just the truth in my

595
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:47.599
own experience and the experience of witnessing
other people, you just playing not ready

596
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:52.840
yet and you have to hurt more. And that sucks, but it's true.

597
00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.800
And I think if most people,
if they're willing to be honest with

598
00:42:55.840 --> 00:43:00.559
themselves and look at their own lives, they'll be able to look at many

599
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:05.440
many, many times before they finally
did quit something, before they finally lost

600
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:07.719
the weight, before they finally quit
drinking, before they finally decided to start

601
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:13.000
reading more. Whatever the thing is, there were many times before then that

602
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:15.280
they knew they should have done it, but they didn't do it until the

603
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:21.159
point when it hurt them enough to
say never again. So, if you're

604
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:22.880
not ready to make the change yet
after going through all of that stuff,

605
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:28.559
you just need to hurt someone and
then you'll be there. That is right.

606
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:32.199
I think you're right there, right
right. But then you also have

607
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:37.960
the wisdom to put to suggest a
support team. Yes, what's your advice

608
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:44.960
for putting together a support team?
That's critical and that's like something that's that's

609
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:47.800
a big function of AA, you
know, for people to be there and

610
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:52.960
support you along your journey to sobriety. And so you know, you can

611
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:57.039
use that as as a support team. You can use friends and family.

612
00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.840
But I think the important thing that
you have to pay attention to is who

613
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:05.280
it is that you are enrolling to
be a part of your support team to

614
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:10.320
make sure that they are going to
hold you accountable and be honest with you

615
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:15.679
when when they see that you're you're
you know, messing up and not doing

616
00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:19.119
not live in the way that you
said that you want to live, but

617
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:24.119
then also that they are living in
a way that that that you aspire to

618
00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:30.519
or admire and some kind of should
be somebody that is at a place that

619
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:34.719
you want to get to, so
that when you interact with them, they

620
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:37.440
can see how they can help you, and you can see how you want

621
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:39.960
to get to where they're at.
But the most important thing is that we

622
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:46.000
can't do this alone. You know, we we we can't. We're not

623
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:52.119
meant to do much of anything alone
long term. You know. We're tribal

624
00:44:52.119 --> 00:44:53.199
people, you know, we're meant
to be in hurts, you know,

625
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:57.199
and stuff and uh, and we
have some things that we have to do

626
00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.559
on our own. And it's a
very healthy thing to be able to be

627
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:01.960
alone. But there's some things that
you meet other people for and you should

628
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:05.960
have other people for, and this
is definitely one of them. There's a

629
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:09.760
lot of work that needs to be
done introspectively, you know. But times

630
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:15.199
when you're feeling weak, or you're
feeling stressed or like you need a hand,

631
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:20.239
that's when these people that you've chosen
ahead of time are the ones that

632
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:22.920
you can reach out to and say, hey, man, I'm not doing

633
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:24.599
well. You said you're going to
be there for me. And it's so

634
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:30.280
important with so many of these things
that the support team, the boundaries,

635
00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:35.039
the substitutions, you have to create
these things ahead of time when you're in

636
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.280
a good mindset, right after it
made the decision that yes, I'm going

637
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.639
to make sures you're feeling all good
because we all know life is life,

638
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.440
and there's going to come a time
when you're not feeling good sooner than later,

639
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:46.360
and it's going to test you.
It's going to make you wonder can

640
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:51.280
I stick to this? And in
those moments of weakness is when you are

641
00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:54.840
tent, when you're going to be
tempted to go back to the path of

642
00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:59.960
least resistance for relief and for your
brain. That's going to be alcohol,

643
00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.920
drugs, TV, Facebook or whatever
the thing is to take your mind away

644
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:07.159
from what hurts. But if you've
done the work ahead of time and you've

645
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:13.159
said when this happens, I'm going
to do this instead, you at least

646
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.840
have a chance because you've made a
plan for what you're going to do when

647
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:20.880
that happens. And then even if
you do fail. I just went through

648
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:24.440
this and my advice was, it's
not a failure, it's just a data

649
00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:30.840
point. People look at setbacks and
going out and lapses and whatever as like

650
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:37.159
well clock restarts, right, Yeah
I failed, and no you didn't know

651
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.280
you didn't You've You've got another data
point that shows you that when I'm in

652
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:45.519
these circumstances, when I'm feeling this
way, here's what I do. Now

653
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:51.360
you can create more substitutions and boundaries
around that. Well. Interesting, we

654
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:55.519
have about a minute talk about some
healthy substitutions and boundaries. I mean,

655
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:59.000
it depends on what your thing is, you know, like if you if

656
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.440
it's a if it's a a diet
thing, you know, like I had

657
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:05.920
that too, I incredibly unhealthy.
So instead of having like a bag of

658
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:09.079
candy on my toolbox at work,
I would have a bag of almonds or

659
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:15.079
something to that effects. Or if
it's if it's a sedentary lifestyle, then

660
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:22.599
your substitution is you know, disconnect
to deactivate your your you know, Facebook,

661
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:27.199
Netflix or whatever, whatever the thing
is. It's about identifying the things

662
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:32.159
that are are going to be a
problem for you ahead of time and creating

663
00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:38.239
a plan to not have them become
that problem for you. So for me,

664
00:47:38.280 --> 00:47:42.320
it was like I wouldn't hang out
with certain people for a while while

665
00:47:42.320 --> 00:47:45.599
I was, you know, learning
to get sober. I wouldn't go to

666
00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:50.880
certain places because it's just going to
be an unnecessary trigger for me. Think

667
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.760
about the opposite right of what your
thing is, and let that be the

668
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:57.119
thing. You go to. Something
healthy. You know what's healthy. We

669
00:47:57.159 --> 00:48:00.360
all know what's healthy. You know
you don't need to be hold that.

670
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:04.920
This is very good. Last question, who? And you can look at

671
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.920
this from two perspectives, one perspective
or the or the other or both.

672
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:10.519
Who would the listening and viewing audiences
should reach out to you? And why?

673
00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:20.000
Who would the who? Who in
these listening and viewing audiences should reach

674
00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:22.280
out to you? And why?
Oh? Gotcha? So, like I

675
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:28.159
guess who who is a good fit
for for Pathways if they want to?

676
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:30.039
Right? Okay? Well, like
I said before, the mission statement of

677
00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:34.719
Pathways is to help business leaders recover
the life that they sacrifice in pursuit of

678
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:39.920
their career. So the so the
person who I'm who my particular skill set

679
00:48:39.920 --> 00:48:47.800
and experiences is most set up to
help are business owners business leaders who've given

680
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:52.679
everything that they've got to create this
business or this this this career that they

681
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:57.599
are succeeding in and it's doing well
or or to some degree, you know,

682
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:00.639
it's it's it's it's okay, but
they've recognize that they've lost quality of

683
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:04.440
life and not happy in this area
and not happy in that area. Because

684
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:07.079
what I do is a two pronged
approach. There's the personal development side and

685
00:49:07.119 --> 00:49:12.239
the professional development side. So I
work with you as an individual to help

686
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:16.119
you to overcome whatever your self limiting
beliefs are, your habits, your behaviors,

687
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:20.519
all these things that are holding you
back from being the most effective person

688
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:22.400
in your personal life and your professional
life. But then I also have a

689
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.960
whole other side of the business that
works on the business itself, how to

690
00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:30.400
be more profitable, less costly,
more effective, more valuable if you ever

691
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:32.239
want to sell it one day,
that type of thing. So you work

692
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:36.199
on both of those separately, and
then when they come together in the business,

693
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:38.039
they can get to where they want
to go. So the right person

694
00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:44.199
for me is somebody who is a
business leader, has given a lot to

695
00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:47.760
where they're at and they want to
get further. They have goals of where

696
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:52.119
they want to reach and they're having
a hard time reaching those because of personal

697
00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.719
and professional reasons. Cool. You've
seen the contact information, John, We

698
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:58.800
are out of time, sadly,
this has been really cool. The book

699
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:02.360
is Life Without Crutches, available on
Amazon. John Covenants is the author.

700
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:07.320
He's a lot more than the book, but get the book and thank you

701
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:09.960
for being here. Really appreciate it. Thanks man, appreciate you, and

702
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:14.119
thank you everybody for watching and listening. This is a show about business and

703
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:17.239
business challenges, life challenges too.
If you've got concerns about the growth of

704
00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:21.480
your company, feel free to reach
out to me on Facebook or LinkedIn at

705
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:23.920
Winning Business Radio. You can drop
me a note, Bobby. The easiest

706
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:30.559
email for now is Kevin at Winning
Businessradio dot com. Our companies Winning Incorporated.

707
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:35.400
We're part of Sandler Training. We
developed sales teams into high achievers and

708
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:38.280
sales leaders into true coaches and mentors. We're not right for everybody, but

709
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:43.559
maybe we should have a conversation.
Thank you, producer to producer and engineer

710
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:45.400
one for another job well done.
Thank you one. Be sure to join

711
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:50.079
us next week that's Monday, April
eighth. We'll do it again with another

712
00:50:50.119 --> 00:50:54.239
interesting guest. Until then, this
is Kevin Helenan you've been listening to Winning

713
00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:59.199
Business Radio with your host, Kevin
Helena. If you missed any part of

714
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:04.679
this episode, the podcast is available
on Talk for Podcasting and iHeartRadio. For

715
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:08.880
more information and questions, go to
Winning Business Radio dot com or check us

716
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:13.239
out on social media. Tune in
again next week and every Monday at four

717
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:17.880
pm Eastern Time to listen live to
Winning Business Radio on W four CY Radio

718
00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:23.039
w four cy dot com. Until
then, let's succeed where others have failed

719
00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:28.639
and win in business with Kevin Haleanan
and Winning Business Radio